1 00:00:06,070 --> 00:00:03,830 my deepest sorrows about your government 2 00:00:08,470 --> 00:00:06,080 ran the camps together she was through 3 00:00:11,589 --> 00:00:08,480 all that just to be shot in the living 4 00:00:17,590 --> 00:00:13,669 nazis jonah 5 00:00:20,230 --> 00:00:17,600 god damn nazis 6 00:00:22,870 --> 00:00:20,240 that's al pacino from the amazon series 7 00:00:23,950 --> 00:00:22,880 hunters about a group of modern day nazi 8 00:00:28,070 --> 00:00:23,960 hunters 9 00:00:30,710 --> 00:00:28,080 spoiler alert al pacino isn't quite what 10 00:00:33,670 --> 00:00:30,720 he seems to be in that little clip there 11 00:00:35,590 --> 00:00:33,680 although isn't that a perfect theme set 12 00:00:36,709 --> 00:00:35,600 up for this show in general and for this 13 00:00:39,190 --> 00:00:36,719 episode 14 00:00:41,990 --> 00:00:39,200 things aren't always what they see 15 00:00:44,470 --> 00:00:42,000 take for example today's guest the very 16 00:00:46,630 --> 00:00:44,480 excellent and well spoken scott shea 17 00:00:48,869 --> 00:00:46,640 who's written a book called conspiracy u 18 00:00:50,790 --> 00:00:48,879 now you know or you might know from 19 00:00:53,189 --> 00:00:50,800 listening to this show that i have a 20 00:00:55,430 --> 00:00:53,199 special affinity for successful business 21 00:00:59,029 --> 00:00:55,440 people who then venture into these kind 22 00:01:01,910 --> 00:00:59,039 of intellectual pursuits like scott does 23 00:01:03,029 --> 00:01:01,920 this guy is sharp and he's worldly in a 24 00:01:05,590 --> 00:01:03,039 lot of ways 25 00:01:07,990 --> 00:01:05,600 and as you'll see in this dialogue he's 26 00:01:09,990 --> 00:01:08,000 able to quickly kind of cut through a 27 00:01:11,910 --> 00:01:10,000 lot of the chaff and get down to talking 28 00:01:15,109 --> 00:01:11,920 about real stuff 29 00:01:17,910 --> 00:01:15,119 and we talk about plenty of real stuff 30 00:01:20,550 --> 00:01:17,920 in this interview here are some clips 31 00:01:23,190 --> 00:01:20,560 i do run across people now and then who 32 00:01:24,870 --> 00:01:23,200 have the whole hoax thing and it pops up 33 00:01:27,030 --> 00:01:24,880 in sometimes the strangest way i'll talk 34 00:01:29,030 --> 00:01:27,040 to people and i'll think we're having a 35 00:01:31,030 --> 00:01:29,040 good conversation and then i find out 36 00:01:33,910 --> 00:01:31,040 this part i've talked to folks just like 37 00:01:35,350 --> 00:01:33,920 that too who are and i talk about folks 38 00:01:37,670 --> 00:01:35,360 in the book who are 39 00:01:40,950 --> 00:01:37,680 have phds in something 40 00:01:43,190 --> 00:01:40,960 they're not dummies and yet when it 41 00:01:45,190 --> 00:01:43,200 comes to believing in a conspiracy 42 00:01:46,469 --> 00:01:45,200 theory about the jew arthur butts who's 43 00:01:49,030 --> 00:01:46,479 a professor of engineering at 44 00:01:50,149 --> 00:01:49,040 northwestern university as tenure 45 00:01:51,990 --> 00:01:50,159 claims 46 00:01:53,910 --> 00:01:52,000 that everything that happened to my 47 00:01:54,870 --> 00:01:53,920 father and everybody else was just a 48 00:01:57,350 --> 00:01:54,880 myth 49 00:02:00,149 --> 00:01:57,360 designed by zionists with political 50 00:02:02,630 --> 00:02:00,159 motivation and that these jews were so 51 00:02:05,510 --> 00:02:02,640 smart that they were able to place 52 00:02:07,910 --> 00:02:05,520 thousands of false documents 53 00:02:09,749 --> 00:02:07,920 sadly what happens on campus no longer 54 00:02:10,790 --> 00:02:09,759 stays on campus 55 00:02:13,430 --> 00:02:10,800 these 56 00:02:15,190 --> 00:02:13,440 theories are becoming much more 57 00:02:16,949 --> 00:02:15,200 ubiquitous 58 00:02:19,030 --> 00:02:16,959 they are infiltrating in some areas into 59 00:02:20,070 --> 00:02:19,040 the investment world this whole bds 60 00:02:23,110 --> 00:02:20,080 movement 61 00:02:24,550 --> 00:02:23,120 a boycott this divest and sanction is a 62 00:02:26,150 --> 00:02:24,560 direct 63 00:02:27,830 --> 00:02:26,160 heir to 64 00:02:28,949 --> 00:02:27,840 what happened on campus 65 00:02:31,830 --> 00:02:28,959 let's go to something a little bit 66 00:02:33,430 --> 00:02:31,840 harder because the other i guess concern 67 00:02:34,710 --> 00:02:33,440 i had with the book 68 00:02:37,430 --> 00:02:34,720 is that 69 00:02:40,309 --> 00:02:37,440 you know when i think of anti-zionist 70 00:02:42,229 --> 00:02:40,319 conspiracy theories i think of this 71 00:02:44,869 --> 00:02:42,239 gislane maxwell and her pedophile lover 72 00:02:47,270 --> 00:02:44,879 jeffrey upstein were both israeli spies 73 00:02:50,070 --> 00:02:47,280 who took pictures of powerful men having 74 00:02:52,710 --> 00:02:50,080 sex with underage girls to blackmail 75 00:02:55,110 --> 00:02:52,720 them their alleged mossad handler has 76 00:02:58,229 --> 00:02:55,120 sensationally claimed now i would just 77 00:02:59,910 --> 00:02:58,239 add that that alleged mossad handler 78 00:03:02,070 --> 00:02:59,920 kind of stands up to scrutiny pretty 79 00:03:03,750 --> 00:03:02,080 well he was tried in court and was 80 00:03:06,550 --> 00:03:03,760 actually acquitted because he showed 81 00:03:09,350 --> 00:03:06,560 that he was an agent of israel in his 82 00:03:11,589 --> 00:03:09,360 arms dealing well look first of all i'd 83 00:03:12,949 --> 00:03:11,599 like to say this 84 00:03:14,869 --> 00:03:12,959 what happened 85 00:03:17,830 --> 00:03:14,879 with the anti-zionists 86 00:03:19,990 --> 00:03:17,840 say is something separate i mean there 87 00:03:21,509 --> 00:03:20,000 by the way i have no idea if that's 88 00:03:23,110 --> 00:03:21,519 right wrong or different i've never 89 00:03:24,550 --> 00:03:23,120 heard that or seen that before you put 90 00:03:27,030 --> 00:03:24,560 it up on the screen 91 00:03:28,869 --> 00:03:27,040 so i don't i don't express any opinion 92 00:03:30,630 --> 00:03:28,879 but i will say this 93 00:03:33,270 --> 00:03:30,640 the united states has done despicable 94 00:03:34,550 --> 00:03:33,280 things a lot of countries do despicable 95 00:03:36,470 --> 00:03:34,560 things 96 00:03:39,190 --> 00:03:36,480 so i think this is a really good 97 00:03:41,589 --> 00:03:39,200 interview from a really terrific guest 98 00:03:44,309 --> 00:03:41,599 who's willing to go there and engage on 99 00:03:46,869 --> 00:03:44,319 stuff and talk in a very unscripted way 100 00:03:48,390 --> 00:03:46,879 like this hats off to scott shea for 101 00:03:50,869 --> 00:03:48,400 doing that so 102 00:03:53,830 --> 00:03:50,879 here's the thing if you like this 103 00:03:56,070 --> 00:03:53,840 interview if you agree with me that this 104 00:03:58,309 --> 00:03:56,080 is unique you're not going to find 105 00:04:01,110 --> 00:03:58,319 another interview like this well 106 00:04:02,550 --> 00:04:01,120 anywhere i listen to a ton of podcasts i 107 00:04:04,949 --> 00:04:02,560 don't hear 108 00:04:07,750 --> 00:04:04,959 very many interviews like this 109 00:04:10,149 --> 00:04:07,760 share this interview with other people 110 00:04:12,309 --> 00:04:10,159 let's let other people know that these 111 00:04:15,750 --> 00:04:12,319 kind of dialogues these kind of 112 00:04:18,069 --> 00:04:15,760 challenging dialogues are happening on 113 00:04:20,789 --> 00:04:18,079 the internet that's my mission to make 114 00:04:22,870 --> 00:04:20,799 that happen and to make it happen i need 115 00:04:25,430 --> 00:04:22,880 your help you know in the last episode i 116 00:04:27,430 --> 00:04:25,440 asked people to reach out a little bit 117 00:04:30,150 --> 00:04:27,440 to share the skeptical thing with other 118 00:04:32,230 --> 00:04:30,160 people and you did i'm really really 119 00:04:35,909 --> 00:04:32,240 grateful that you did so i'm going to 120 00:04:38,950 --> 00:04:35,919 ask you to do it again take a moment 121 00:04:41,030 --> 00:04:38,960 and do what you can to let people know 122 00:04:43,030 --> 00:04:41,040 that we're out there we're holding down 123 00:04:46,390 --> 00:04:43,040 the fort in terms of these 124 00:04:50,070 --> 00:04:46,400 next level intelligent dialogues slash 125 00:04:52,310 --> 00:04:50,080 debates about real important stuff 126 00:04:53,830 --> 00:04:52,320 okay that's my pitch remember there's no 127 00:04:55,350 --> 00:04:53,840 strings attached there's no money 128 00:04:57,189 --> 00:04:55,360 changing hands there's no firewall 129 00:04:59,110 --> 00:04:57,199 there's no advertising there's no 130 00:05:00,710 --> 00:04:59,120 nothing go buy scott's book if you want 131 00:05:03,110 --> 00:05:00,720 to spend anybody do that but you don't 132 00:05:04,230 --> 00:05:03,120 have to give me anything just share the 133 00:05:06,790 --> 00:05:04,240 ideas 134 00:05:08,629 --> 00:05:06,800 okay here's the interview 135 00:05:10,950 --> 00:05:08,639 welcome to skeptico where we explore 136 00:05:13,350 --> 00:05:10,960 controversial science and spirituality 137 00:05:15,749 --> 00:05:13,360 with leading researchers thinkers and 138 00:05:17,510 --> 00:05:15,759 their critics i'm your host alex akaris 139 00:05:19,749 --> 00:05:17,520 and well today 140 00:05:22,550 --> 00:05:19,759 we have a good one 141 00:05:25,110 --> 00:05:22,560 super successful business leader banker 142 00:05:26,590 --> 00:05:25,120 and author scott shea is here to talk 143 00:05:28,710 --> 00:05:26,600 about his new book 144 00:05:31,029 --> 00:05:28,720 conspiracy u 145 00:05:33,189 --> 00:05:31,039 scott is the co-founder and chairman of 146 00:05:34,710 --> 00:05:33,199 signature bank in new york a very very 147 00:05:36,710 --> 00:05:34,720 substantial bank 148 00:05:39,749 --> 00:05:36,720 he has an undergraduate and mba from 149 00:05:41,909 --> 00:05:39,759 northwestern i mention that particularly 150 00:05:44,870 --> 00:05:41,919 because it is relevant to this story as 151 00:05:46,870 --> 00:05:44,880 we go on scott welcome to skeptico thank 152 00:05:48,230 --> 00:05:46,880 you so much for joining me 153 00:05:50,550 --> 00:05:48,240 alex thank you for having me on your 154 00:05:51,350 --> 00:05:50,560 show it's great 155 00:05:53,909 --> 00:05:51,360 so 156 00:05:57,110 --> 00:05:53,919 scott when we start just tell people the 157 00:06:04,469 --> 00:05:57,120 basic premise of the book 158 00:06:07,590 --> 00:06:04,479 conspiracy theories from both the far 159 00:06:08,950 --> 00:06:07,600 left and far right are masquerading as 160 00:06:11,189 --> 00:06:08,960 scholarship 161 00:06:13,749 --> 00:06:11,199 at universities including my own 162 00:06:16,950 --> 00:06:13,759 northwestern university 163 00:06:18,629 --> 00:06:16,960 and these conspiracy theories 164 00:06:21,430 --> 00:06:18,639 are not just about jews but there are 165 00:06:27,909 --> 00:06:21,440 plenty of them about jews and zionism 166 00:06:32,870 --> 00:06:30,390 things that make no sense are passed off 167 00:06:34,710 --> 00:06:32,880 as academic research at fancy 168 00:06:36,309 --> 00:06:34,720 universities 169 00:06:38,550 --> 00:06:36,319 great i'll tell you what can you tell us 170 00:06:39,830 --> 00:06:38,560 a little bit about your father i think 171 00:06:41,189 --> 00:06:39,840 it's 172 00:06:42,870 --> 00:06:41,199 actually there's some important history 173 00:06:44,790 --> 00:06:42,880 there that i learned that i didn't know 174 00:06:45,590 --> 00:06:44,800 before and it certainly plays into one 175 00:06:47,430 --> 00:06:45,600 of the 176 00:06:49,830 --> 00:06:47,440 most important conspiracy theories that 177 00:06:50,629 --> 00:06:49,840 we might talk about a little bit 178 00:06:53,110 --> 00:06:50,639 yep 179 00:06:54,790 --> 00:06:53,120 well my father grew up in spectrum 180 00:06:55,909 --> 00:06:54,800 lithuania 181 00:06:59,270 --> 00:06:55,919 and 182 00:07:01,029 --> 00:06:59,280 he was when the nazis came in in 1941 he 183 00:07:03,110 --> 00:07:01,039 was it was just before he was going to 184 00:07:05,270 --> 00:07:03,120 turn 14. 185 00:07:08,070 --> 00:07:05,280 his father was murdered 186 00:07:11,990 --> 00:07:08,080 practically before his eyes his 187 00:07:13,510 --> 00:07:12,000 brothers his aunts his uncles and almost 188 00:07:15,430 --> 00:07:13,520 all of his cousins were murdered my 189 00:07:17,430 --> 00:07:15,440 closest relative on his side is a second 190 00:07:19,909 --> 00:07:17,440 cousin once removed 191 00:07:22,309 --> 00:07:19,919 the bad news was and the really really 192 00:07:24,309 --> 00:07:22,319 bad news is that decades of conspiracy 193 00:07:25,670 --> 00:07:24,319 theories and of boycotts of jews and 194 00:07:27,670 --> 00:07:25,680 sphexner 195 00:07:30,790 --> 00:07:27,680 led everybody to think that these jews 196 00:07:33,350 --> 00:07:30,800 no matter how nice these local jews are 197 00:07:35,430 --> 00:07:33,360 they're part of some evil cabal and once 198 00:07:39,589 --> 00:07:35,440 the nazis came in every last jew was 199 00:07:41,430 --> 00:07:39,599 handed over in svexner nobody escaped 200 00:07:43,189 --> 00:07:41,440 so that's the little bit that i guess 201 00:07:44,950 --> 00:07:43,199 i've heard about but 202 00:07:46,790 --> 00:07:44,960 your story and i don't know if it was in 203 00:07:49,350 --> 00:07:46,800 the book or i read in another interview 204 00:07:51,189 --> 00:07:49,360 did kind of added to that you know 205 00:07:53,990 --> 00:07:51,199 i mean tragically 206 00:07:56,150 --> 00:07:54,000 this was an enabling 207 00:07:58,710 --> 00:07:56,160 kind of thing that was going on in 208 00:08:00,230 --> 00:07:58,720 lithuania that really propelled that and 209 00:08:02,869 --> 00:08:00,240 then you know 210 00:08:05,589 --> 00:08:02,879 i do run across people now and then who 211 00:08:07,270 --> 00:08:05,599 have the hula hoax thing and it pops up 212 00:08:09,350 --> 00:08:07,280 in sometimes the strangest way i'll talk 213 00:08:11,990 --> 00:08:09,360 to people and i'll think we're having a 214 00:08:13,830 --> 00:08:12,000 good conversation about something that 215 00:08:15,589 --> 00:08:13,840 we both 216 00:08:17,430 --> 00:08:15,599 believe in or think we believe in or 217 00:08:19,430 --> 00:08:17,440 want to explore and then i find out this 218 00:08:21,990 --> 00:08:19,440 part and i always 219 00:08:24,230 --> 00:08:22,000 kind of am surprised but then 220 00:08:27,749 --> 00:08:24,240 the actual history 221 00:08:30,150 --> 00:08:27,759 not of your father but that same period 222 00:08:33,509 --> 00:08:30,160 is what i refer people to because 223 00:08:36,550 --> 00:08:33,519 because what what happens to your dad 224 00:08:38,550 --> 00:08:36,560 so here's a thing to that i 225 00:08:40,870 --> 00:08:38,560 and and unfortunately in this process 226 00:08:42,949 --> 00:08:40,880 i've talked to folks just like that too 227 00:08:44,230 --> 00:08:42,959 who are and i talk about folks in the 228 00:08:46,470 --> 00:08:44,240 book who are 229 00:08:48,870 --> 00:08:46,480 have phds in something 230 00:08:51,190 --> 00:08:48,880 they're not dummies 231 00:08:53,509 --> 00:08:51,200 and yet when it comes to believing in a 232 00:08:55,190 --> 00:08:53,519 conspiracy theory about the jew arthur 233 00:08:57,829 --> 00:08:55,200 butts who's a professor of engineering 234 00:08:58,949 --> 00:08:57,839 at northwestern university as tenure 235 00:09:00,790 --> 00:08:58,959 claims 236 00:09:02,710 --> 00:09:00,800 that everything that happened to my 237 00:09:03,750 --> 00:09:02,720 father and everybody else was just a 238 00:09:06,150 --> 00:09:03,760 myth 239 00:09:08,949 --> 00:09:06,160 designed by zionists with political 240 00:09:11,430 --> 00:09:08,959 motivation and that these jews were so 241 00:09:13,750 --> 00:09:11,440 smart that they were able to place 242 00:09:15,430 --> 00:09:13,760 thousands of false documents 243 00:09:17,750 --> 00:09:15,440 they were able to in his words 244 00:09:19,910 --> 00:09:17,760 bamboozled germans to confess to 245 00:09:21,509 --> 00:09:19,920 committing crimes against humanity just 246 00:09:23,190 --> 00:09:21,519 because the jews were so good at 247 00:09:26,230 --> 00:09:23,200 gaslighting 248 00:09:29,430 --> 00:09:26,240 they were able to um and another it's a 249 00:09:32,710 --> 00:09:29,440 it's a word of his bamboozle or hoodwink 250 00:09:35,670 --> 00:09:32,720 the judges at nuremberg who there were a 251 00:09:36,949 --> 00:09:35,680 few jews on the margins who convinced 252 00:09:40,070 --> 00:09:36,959 these 253 00:09:41,509 --> 00:09:40,080 otherwise smart jurists 254 00:09:45,670 --> 00:09:41,519 that 255 00:09:47,990 --> 00:09:45,680 tragedy among the jews when at most at 256 00:09:50,470 --> 00:09:48,000 most you would say and this is a tenured 257 00:09:51,990 --> 00:09:50,480 professor at northwestern university at 258 00:09:54,550 --> 00:09:52,000 most it was a 259 00:09:56,870 --> 00:09:54,560 a typhoid break a typhoid outbreak 260 00:09:58,070 --> 00:09:56,880 bought brought by some russians who were 261 00:10:00,389 --> 00:09:58,080 also 262 00:10:02,230 --> 00:10:00,399 prisoners of war and he states that the 263 00:10:04,230 --> 00:10:02,240 only reason the jews were put into camps 264 00:10:05,590 --> 00:10:04,240 was for their own protection hitler 265 00:10:07,430 --> 00:10:05,600 wanted to make sure that no one would 266 00:10:09,110 --> 00:10:07,440 bother the jews 267 00:10:11,350 --> 00:10:09,120 when you think about it you have to 268 00:10:13,670 --> 00:10:11,360 dismiss all the evidence 269 00:10:15,430 --> 00:10:13,680 in order to believe what he's saying and 270 00:10:17,509 --> 00:10:15,440 strangely 271 00:10:19,670 --> 00:10:17,519 about 11 percent of millennials think 272 00:10:22,150 --> 00:10:19,680 that that's the case 273 00:10:24,870 --> 00:10:22,160 so in the case of your dad if i have the 274 00:10:27,269 --> 00:10:24,880 story right he's in dachau horrible 275 00:10:31,110 --> 00:10:27,279 horrible concentration camp he's 276 00:10:33,750 --> 00:10:31,120 liberated in april of 1945 he weighs 60 277 00:10:36,710 --> 00:10:33,760 pounds but the facts that we know is 278 00:10:39,269 --> 00:10:36,720 like hey one of the only reasons doc how 279 00:10:41,670 --> 00:10:39,279 is what it is and it's shown for what it 280 00:10:43,670 --> 00:10:41,680 is to the world is because patton's kind 281 00:10:46,630 --> 00:10:43,680 of charging through with his tanks 282 00:10:49,350 --> 00:10:46,640 famously not not to rescue necessarily 283 00:10:51,509 --> 00:10:49,360 dachau but that was the strategy of the 284 00:10:52,550 --> 00:10:51,519 americans at this point but then you 285 00:10:55,030 --> 00:10:52,560 know like 286 00:10:57,430 --> 00:10:55,040 i tell people who you know you can go 287 00:10:59,829 --> 00:10:57,440 online and find like a guy who's still 288 00:11:02,870 --> 00:10:59,839 alive was 19 at the time was just a u.s 289 00:11:04,870 --> 00:11:02,880 soldier serving with patton and he says 290 00:11:06,310 --> 00:11:04,880 yeah i was there it was horrible and 291 00:11:07,910 --> 00:11:06,320 patton just like you hear this story 292 00:11:10,069 --> 00:11:07,920 patton went into town and grabbed the 293 00:11:12,069 --> 00:11:10,079 mayor and grabbed the people in town and 294 00:11:14,550 --> 00:11:12,079 made a march through the camp he says 295 00:11:17,509 --> 00:11:14,560 this is a real story i was there i saw 296 00:11:19,350 --> 00:11:17,519 it and then eisenhower dwight our became 297 00:11:20,630 --> 00:11:19,360 our future president came to the camp 298 00:11:22,630 --> 00:11:20,640 and was 299 00:11:24,389 --> 00:11:22,640 a guy who was seasoned in war was just 300 00:11:26,550 --> 00:11:24,399 so horrified that he was literally 301 00:11:29,190 --> 00:11:26,560 throwing up you know this guy had seen a 302 00:11:31,269 --> 00:11:29,200 lot of stuff and he was throwing up at 303 00:11:33,350 --> 00:11:31,279 the site of it so 304 00:11:35,110 --> 00:11:33,360 i think it just i don't want to hammer 305 00:11:37,509 --> 00:11:35,120 that too much because i got some other 306 00:11:39,670 --> 00:11:37,519 stuff for you that might not jive with 307 00:11:42,150 --> 00:11:39,680 all of your stuff but number away on 308 00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:42,160 that i mean my father if he if he hadn't 309 00:11:46,470 --> 00:11:43,600 been liberated 310 00:11:48,550 --> 00:11:46,480 in those days or at most a few weeks 311 00:11:50,550 --> 00:11:48,560 he'd have been dead and he the only 312 00:11:51,829 --> 00:11:50,560 reason he's alive today i'm alive today 313 00:11:53,990 --> 00:11:51,839 is because 314 00:11:56,389 --> 00:11:54,000 american soldiers 315 00:11:59,509 --> 00:11:56,399 brought him to a field hospital 316 00:12:01,670 --> 00:11:59,519 otherwise he'd be dead i mean my father 317 00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:01,680 was a great patriot because 318 00:12:05,190 --> 00:12:04,000 the americans saved them and they did it 319 00:12:08,470 --> 00:12:05,200 out of the goodness of their heart it 320 00:12:10,790 --> 00:12:08,480 took him a year to be fully recovered 321 00:12:13,430 --> 00:12:10,800 oh i can i can only imagine 322 00:12:15,670 --> 00:12:13,440 okay so that's an important 323 00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:15,680 history because it's your personal 324 00:12:19,430 --> 00:12:17,760 history but it's also just as it ties 325 00:12:21,750 --> 00:12:19,440 into the book it's just an important 326 00:12:23,430 --> 00:12:21,760 history to know because there are people 327 00:12:25,269 --> 00:12:23,440 i wasn't aware that figure that you 328 00:12:28,389 --> 00:12:25,279 threw out but it's stunning to think 329 00:12:30,710 --> 00:12:28,399 that 11 of millennials would believe the 330 00:12:32,710 --> 00:12:30,720 hula hoax thing because it's just a 331 00:12:34,870 --> 00:12:32,720 silly conspiracy theory and that's what 332 00:12:37,430 --> 00:12:34,880 i want to talk about next because 333 00:12:39,269 --> 00:12:37,440 this book of yours conspiracy u 334 00:12:41,030 --> 00:12:39,279 talks about maybe you want to before we 335 00:12:43,750 --> 00:12:41,040 get there 336 00:12:45,910 --> 00:12:43,760 you know tell us about the main 337 00:12:48,069 --> 00:12:45,920 conspiracy that you're driving at 338 00:12:49,590 --> 00:12:48,079 because it's it the one that you detail 339 00:12:50,710 --> 00:12:49,600 in the book and talk about i found 340 00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:50,720 rather 341 00:12:55,590 --> 00:12:53,680 obscure within the realm of conspiracy 342 00:12:58,629 --> 00:12:55,600 theory but obviously it's one that you 343 00:12:59,910 --> 00:12:58,639 think is important is it the one that 344 00:13:01,350 --> 00:12:59,920 you mentioned there's other ones you 345 00:13:02,710 --> 00:13:01,360 mentioned in the book which ones do you 346 00:13:04,790 --> 00:13:02,720 really want to highlight 347 00:13:07,590 --> 00:13:04,800 well i you know it's the anti-zionism 348 00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:07,600 one is a conspiracy theory now you can 349 00:13:13,509 --> 00:13:10,560 be for the jewish state you can think 350 00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:13,519 israel's good israel's not so good but 351 00:13:16,949 --> 00:13:15,839 conspiracy theories and you you really 352 00:13:20,389 --> 00:13:16,959 get this 353 00:13:22,389 --> 00:13:20,399 is that it's not just about unwarranted 354 00:13:23,910 --> 00:13:22,399 or harsh criticism 355 00:13:25,509 --> 00:13:23,920 that's bad 356 00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:25,519 but 357 00:13:28,949 --> 00:13:27,040 academics 358 00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:28,959 publishing books 359 00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:31,440 at major presses duke university press 360 00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:33,120 stand for university press that have 361 00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:34,720 tenure are 362 00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:37,360 writing stuff that's made up about 363 00:13:41,269 --> 00:13:40,000 zionists jews 364 00:13:43,829 --> 00:13:41,279 naming 365 00:13:46,150 --> 00:13:43,839 palestinians so that they can they can 366 00:13:49,509 --> 00:13:46,160 harvest their organs 367 00:13:51,189 --> 00:13:49,519 that somehow zionists slash jews are in 368 00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:51,199 cahoots with 369 00:13:56,949 --> 00:13:53,920 people all around the earth 370 00:14:01,189 --> 00:13:56,959 to teach police to 371 00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:01,199 um harm people of color 372 00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:04,160 these are so silly in terms of when you 373 00:14:09,110 --> 00:14:08,160 start to try to analyze any facts but 374 00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:09,120 when you 375 00:14:12,550 --> 00:14:11,279 talk to folks who are propagating these 376 00:14:14,550 --> 00:14:12,560 theories 377 00:14:15,670 --> 00:14:14,560 the jasper poors of the world some of 378 00:14:17,350 --> 00:14:15,680 them recognize that they're just 379 00:14:18,949 --> 00:14:17,360 politically motivated 380 00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:18,959 but others 381 00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:20,880 they just continue to create a larger 382 00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:23,760 and larger false non-falsifiable theory 383 00:14:28,629 --> 00:14:25,680 so not unlike what butts does with the 384 00:14:36,949 --> 00:14:29,430 the 385 00:14:39,430 --> 00:14:36,959 amazingly effective conspiracy of jews 386 00:14:43,030 --> 00:14:39,440 to cover up all the bad stuff that 387 00:14:46,150 --> 00:14:45,189 from organ harvesting 388 00:14:47,189 --> 00:14:46,160 to 389 00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:47,199 um 390 00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:48,720 to to 391 00:14:52,389 --> 00:14:49,760 uh 392 00:14:54,870 --> 00:14:52,399 colluding with the minneapolis police 393 00:14:57,189 --> 00:14:54,880 in the murder of george floyd i mean 394 00:14:58,949 --> 00:14:57,199 this stuff is amazing and then 395 00:15:02,550 --> 00:14:58,959 300 396 00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:02,560 california university organizations 397 00:15:09,269 --> 00:15:03,680 create 398 00:15:10,790 --> 00:15:09,279 censure israel for their involvement 399 00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:10,800 with 400 00:15:15,509 --> 00:15:12,959 the george floyd 401 00:15:19,110 --> 00:15:15,519 and other 402 00:15:21,030 --> 00:15:19,120 murders harassments of people of color 403 00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:21,040 there's no sense to this i mean let's 404 00:15:26,069 --> 00:15:23,920 not forget there's 6.7 million jews in 405 00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:26,079 israel we have 8 billion people in the 406 00:15:29,590 --> 00:15:27,120 world 407 00:15:31,749 --> 00:15:29,600 and yet somehow the jews are 408 00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:31,759 the massive focus 409 00:15:36,790 --> 00:15:32,880 of 410 00:15:39,910 --> 00:15:36,800 and by the way i talk a little bit about 411 00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:39,920 the boycott issue i mean there is one 412 00:15:44,550 --> 00:15:42,560 boycott movement in the world 413 00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:44,560 the one bds movement in the world and 414 00:15:47,829 --> 00:15:46,240 strangely enough it's against the one 415 00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:47,839 jewish nation in the world like every 416 00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:50,639 other country is perfect 417 00:15:54,389 --> 00:15:52,320 okay 418 00:15:55,670 --> 00:15:54,399 let me kind of pull this apart a little 419 00:15:58,389 --> 00:15:55,680 bit i think there's a lot of common 420 00:16:00,949 --> 00:15:58,399 ground between us i think for someone 421 00:16:02,310 --> 00:16:00,959 who's investigated conspiracy theories a 422 00:16:05,110 --> 00:16:02,320 lot and has some of the same 423 00:16:07,030 --> 00:16:05,120 frustrations that you do about the silly 424 00:16:09,749 --> 00:16:07,040 conspiracy theories 425 00:16:12,310 --> 00:16:09,759 flat earth conspiracy theory there is no 426 00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:12,320 covet 19 con there is no covet virus 427 00:16:16,550 --> 00:16:14,560 there's no viruses at all this is alive 428 00:16:19,749 --> 00:16:16,560 and paul is dead 429 00:16:21,350 --> 00:16:19,759 well there's also conspiracy theories 430 00:16:24,550 --> 00:16:21,360 that i think 431 00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:24,560 justify our examination and i wanted to 432 00:16:30,069 --> 00:16:27,600 bring up are you aware of the origin 433 00:16:31,269 --> 00:16:30,079 of the modern term conspiracy theory and 434 00:16:33,829 --> 00:16:31,279 where it came from because i looked in 435 00:16:36,790 --> 00:16:33,839 your book you have a chapter conspiracy 436 00:16:38,389 --> 00:16:36,800 theories what they are and why they are 437 00:16:40,470 --> 00:16:38,399 bad and we'll talk about that in a 438 00:16:45,110 --> 00:16:40,480 minute but are you aware of the modern 439 00:16:48,389 --> 00:16:45,120 origin of the term conspiracy theory 440 00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:48,399 no i read jordan jovan bryford and 441 00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:49,440 kwasam 442 00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:51,440 who wrote about conspiracy theories yeah 443 00:16:55,350 --> 00:16:53,360 they don't they don't talk about it it's 444 00:16:57,590 --> 00:16:55,360 directly from a document that was 445 00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:57,600 released through a foia request i think 446 00:17:02,310 --> 00:16:59,279 the new york times initiated the fourier 447 00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:02,320 request in 76 or something like that the 448 00:17:07,270 --> 00:17:04,640 title of the document this is cia 449 00:17:09,750 --> 00:17:07,280 concerning criticism of the warren 450 00:17:11,669 --> 00:17:09,760 report and was drafted in 67 it was 451 00:17:14,390 --> 00:17:11,679 about jfk 452 00:17:16,789 --> 00:17:14,400 and it was to all the media outlets back 453 00:17:18,230 --> 00:17:16,799 then you remember the day media outlets 454 00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:18,240 you could kind of count the ones that 455 00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:20,720 really mattered all of them were told do 456 00:17:27,829 --> 00:17:22,240 not 457 00:17:30,150 --> 00:17:27,839 oswald known lone nut assassin and then 458 00:17:32,789 --> 00:17:30,160 they introduced this term conspiracy 459 00:17:34,789 --> 00:17:32,799 theorists as a pejorative term and use 460 00:17:35,590 --> 00:17:34,799 that to kind of characterize all these 461 00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:35,600 people 462 00:17:38,870 --> 00:17:37,120 now the upside of that i don't know if 463 00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:38,880 you're totally aware of this but again 464 00:17:43,909 --> 00:17:41,039 i'm not picking that up that's a fire 465 00:17:45,669 --> 00:17:43,919 release document from the cia 466 00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:45,679 but the the upshot of that that i guess 467 00:17:48,789 --> 00:17:47,440 a lot of people and in the same way that 468 00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:48,799 you're talking about a lot of people 469 00:17:52,870 --> 00:17:51,360 don't realize that in 1978 470 00:17:54,549 --> 00:17:52,880 the house select committee on 471 00:17:57,590 --> 00:17:54,559 assassinations 472 00:17:59,990 --> 00:17:57,600 concluded that jfk was probably a 473 00:18:02,390 --> 00:18:00,000 conspiracy and they're using that softly 474 00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:02,400 they proved pretty conclusively from the 475 00:18:06,870 --> 00:18:04,880 evidence that it was a conspiracy so the 476 00:18:08,950 --> 00:18:06,880 official position 477 00:18:11,270 --> 00:18:08,960 of the united states government is that 478 00:18:13,029 --> 00:18:11,280 jfk was a conspiracy 479 00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:13,039 the real question is why does dan rather 480 00:18:17,590 --> 00:18:15,600 go on why does dan rather go on tv and 481 00:18:19,750 --> 00:18:17,600 say hey i can't show you the zabruder 482 00:18:23,350 --> 00:18:19,760 film because it's too gory but you can 483 00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:23,360 clearly see that his head falls forward 484 00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:25,120 when we all know now that we've seen it 485 00:18:32,310 --> 00:18:28,559 that that's a lie here's my point 486 00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:32,320 not all conspiracy theories are bad 487 00:18:35,830 --> 00:18:34,240 and i'm a little bit concerned the way 488 00:18:38,070 --> 00:18:35,840 you kind of 489 00:18:41,750 --> 00:18:38,080 are you falling for 490 00:18:44,230 --> 00:18:41,760 part of the game that is in conspiracy 491 00:18:46,549 --> 00:18:44,240 theories by only focusing on the silly 492 00:18:48,950 --> 00:18:46,559 ones whether they're silly ones directed 493 00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:48,960 at the group that you care about or the 494 00:18:54,390 --> 00:18:52,320 silly ones you know in general 495 00:18:56,870 --> 00:18:54,400 so i i think that's a great question so 496 00:18:58,710 --> 00:18:56,880 the nomenclature that i use 497 00:19:00,789 --> 00:18:58,720 to describe what you're talking about is 498 00:19:03,190 --> 00:19:00,799 a little different i say there are two 499 00:19:05,350 --> 00:19:03,200 things there's conspiracy theories which 500 00:19:08,390 --> 00:19:05,360 i use in a pejorative way and then there 501 00:19:10,630 --> 00:19:08,400 are theories about conspiracies 502 00:19:13,669 --> 00:19:10,640 so if you have a theory that there was a 503 00:19:15,510 --> 00:19:13,679 conspiracy the way i would use the terms 504 00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:15,520 like jfk 505 00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:16,640 or 506 00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:18,160 um 507 00:19:27,590 --> 00:19:24,480 not sure were falsely vaccinated falsely 508 00:19:30,070 --> 00:19:27,600 treated in tuskegee then you have a a 509 00:19:31,669 --> 00:19:30,080 theory about a conspiracy and you should 510 00:19:33,430 --> 00:19:31,679 investigate it 511 00:19:36,470 --> 00:19:33,440 you should try to investigate that you 512 00:19:39,669 --> 00:19:36,480 should investigate whether the cia gave 513 00:19:41,909 --> 00:19:39,679 lsd to unwitting victims 514 00:19:43,669 --> 00:19:41,919 because those are 515 00:19:45,669 --> 00:19:43,679 theories about conspiracy so you've got 516 00:19:47,909 --> 00:19:45,679 to fact now you're going to investigate 517 00:19:50,230 --> 00:19:47,919 it it may not be that you 518 00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:50,240 can get all the evidence you need 519 00:19:55,270 --> 00:19:53,039 it may be that it's being hidden 520 00:19:58,470 --> 00:19:55,280 but it's a theory about a conspiracy and 521 00:20:00,630 --> 00:19:58,480 you have to say i think based upon this 522 00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:00,640 that this may have happened 523 00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:04,000 conspiracy theories such as 524 00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:08,240 arthur butts or such as um that is some 525 00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:11,200 academics jasper pooh or others 526 00:20:15,590 --> 00:20:13,200 claim about 527 00:20:17,510 --> 00:20:15,600 zionists about jews is that there is a 528 00:20:19,990 --> 00:20:17,520 cabal that 529 00:20:21,430 --> 00:20:20,000 are doing all of these evil things with 530 00:20:24,310 --> 00:20:21,440 no proof 531 00:20:26,230 --> 00:20:24,320 i mean i've read whole books with no 532 00:20:28,710 --> 00:20:26,240 actual facts 533 00:20:30,470 --> 00:20:28,720 other than maybe some demographic table 534 00:20:32,470 --> 00:20:30,480 doesn't foot 535 00:20:35,110 --> 00:20:32,480 i'm with you on that but you realize 536 00:20:37,350 --> 00:20:35,120 that a lot of people view their quote 537 00:20:39,430 --> 00:20:37,360 unquote evidence as factual and 538 00:20:41,430 --> 00:20:39,440 important so it's kind of an eye of the 539 00:20:43,590 --> 00:20:41,440 beholder thing i'm totally with you it 540 00:20:45,990 --> 00:20:43,600 seems completely ridiculous to me as 541 00:20:48,390 --> 00:20:46,000 does flat earth but they hold 542 00:20:50,710 --> 00:20:48,400 conferences they have you know 543 00:20:53,590 --> 00:20:50,720 quote-unquote scholarly discussions so 544 00:20:55,990 --> 00:20:53,600 it's not so easy is it to really make 545 00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:56,000 that distinction you're talking about 546 00:21:00,830 --> 00:20:57,600 no but that's what we we're supposed to 547 00:21:03,590 --> 00:21:00,840 be thinking people so one book that i 548 00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:03,600 i indicate that it was written by 549 00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:06,240 jessica winegar and laura d both full 550 00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:08,559 professors at universities 551 00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:10,799 um and it's about they have this 552 00:21:16,789 --> 00:21:14,080 conspiracy theory that 553 00:21:19,029 --> 00:21:16,799 anthropology departments across 554 00:21:22,149 --> 00:21:19,039 the country are subject to compulsory 555 00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:22,159 zionism and that you can't get promoted 556 00:21:28,950 --> 00:21:24,720 unless you subscribe to the compulsory 557 00:21:32,070 --> 00:21:28,960 zionism okay that is a allegation 558 00:21:34,789 --> 00:21:32,080 got it now they're going to write a book 559 00:21:36,710 --> 00:21:34,799 got it okay that so far where everybody 560 00:21:38,470 --> 00:21:36,720 should be on the same page they write 561 00:21:39,909 --> 00:21:38,480 this whole book 562 00:21:43,190 --> 00:21:39,919 that 563 00:21:45,909 --> 00:21:43,200 finds two instances of professors who 564 00:21:47,830 --> 00:21:45,919 didn't get tenure who had 565 00:21:50,230 --> 00:21:47,840 anti-israel views one of which 566 00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:50,240 ultimately got tenure i believe 567 00:21:53,830 --> 00:21:51,360 and 568 00:21:55,510 --> 00:21:53,840 don't compare their scholarship to any 569 00:21:58,310 --> 00:21:55,520 other scholar but assume that it's 570 00:22:00,710 --> 00:21:58,320 because of their anti-zionist views not 571 00:22:01,990 --> 00:22:00,720 mentioning as you would in a normal 572 00:22:03,430 --> 00:22:02,000 study 573 00:22:06,149 --> 00:22:03,440 any other professor who didn't get 574 00:22:07,909 --> 00:22:06,159 tenure and comparing that i'm sure there 575 00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:07,919 were scores of people who didn't get 576 00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:10,240 tenure in anthropology departments 577 00:22:14,149 --> 00:22:12,240 and the question is evaluate their 578 00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:14,159 scholarship but no that wasn't done it 579 00:22:17,230 --> 00:22:15,760 was just assumed 580 00:22:19,909 --> 00:22:17,240 that that was that that their 581 00:22:21,110 --> 00:22:19,919 anti-zionism was the sole reason 582 00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:21,120 and b 583 00:22:26,789 --> 00:22:24,080 the rest of the book 584 00:22:29,270 --> 00:22:26,799 it's hard to exaggerate they have they 585 00:22:30,950 --> 00:22:29,280 interview person after person who feels 586 00:22:32,789 --> 00:22:30,960 that this has happened 587 00:22:34,789 --> 00:22:32,799 they feel that this is happening they go 588 00:22:36,149 --> 00:22:34,799 on for and talk about how evil it is 589 00:22:39,270 --> 00:22:36,159 that this is happening and how all of 590 00:22:44,149 --> 00:22:39,280 these zionists are moles and they use 591 00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:45,750 but there's no facts 592 00:22:49,830 --> 00:22:47,520 the only fact in the book is that a 593 00:22:50,789 --> 00:22:49,840 person did one person didn't get tenure 594 00:22:52,630 --> 00:22:50,799 and 595 00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:52,640 okay 596 00:22:56,950 --> 00:22:54,799 so they still may have and they could 597 00:22:58,950 --> 00:22:56,960 still say they have a theory about a 598 00:23:00,710 --> 00:22:58,960 conspiracy i think they haven't 599 00:23:03,830 --> 00:23:00,720 presented the slightest evidence but 600 00:23:06,470 --> 00:23:03,840 okay but to say that they proved it 601 00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:06,480 at the end of the book and that anybody 602 00:23:11,270 --> 00:23:08,400 who disagrees with them 603 00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:13,590 not a good person 604 00:23:19,029 --> 00:23:16,080 doesn't make any sense to me and it's 605 00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:19,039 not scholarship it's me it's 606 00:23:23,590 --> 00:23:21,280 great agreed but two points on that 607 00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:23,600 scott first aren't you kind of punching 608 00:23:27,990 --> 00:23:25,679 a little bit below your weight class i 609 00:23:31,669 --> 00:23:28,000 mean no one takes the the whole 610 00:23:34,149 --> 00:23:31,679 post-modern humanitarian uh academic i 611 00:23:36,070 --> 00:23:34,159 mean that's like cliche now it's just so 612 00:23:38,070 --> 00:23:36,080 discredited they have peer-reviewed 613 00:23:41,190 --> 00:23:38,080 papers that are machine generated that 614 00:23:42,070 --> 00:23:41,200 get it's like no one do we really need 615 00:23:44,230 --> 00:23:42,080 to 616 00:23:45,750 --> 00:23:44,240 punch down those people anymore i guess 617 00:23:47,430 --> 00:23:45,760 that's question one and i'll wrap 618 00:23:49,269 --> 00:23:47,440 question two right into it because i 619 00:23:51,669 --> 00:23:49,279 think it's related because one of the 620 00:23:55,029 --> 00:23:51,679 concerns i have is 621 00:23:58,149 --> 00:23:55,039 the cancel culture kind of thing 622 00:23:59,830 --> 00:23:58,159 is enabling the censorship of people 623 00:24:01,430 --> 00:23:59,840 like i don't care how stupid those 624 00:24:03,510 --> 00:24:01,440 people are and they're obviously not 625 00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:03,520 very bright i don't want to see them 626 00:24:07,510 --> 00:24:05,520 removed from the public dialogue i don't 627 00:24:09,590 --> 00:24:07,520 want to see their youtube channel taken 628 00:24:11,430 --> 00:24:09,600 down which is happening so frequently 629 00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:11,440 now i don't want to see them out of 630 00:24:16,870 --> 00:24:14,080 facebook twitter let the conversation go 631 00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:16,880 on i even say with the holo hoaxers i 632 00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:19,440 invite them on the show i'm like hey you 633 00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:22,480 know maybe i missed something it took me 634 00:24:27,590 --> 00:24:25,760 30 seconds to refute your stuff but 635 00:24:29,510 --> 00:24:27,600 maybe you have some other stuff come on 636 00:24:30,710 --> 00:24:29,520 on isn't that the kind of dialogue we 637 00:24:32,789 --> 00:24:30,720 want 638 00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:32,799 so i have two points i'll answer the 639 00:24:38,789 --> 00:24:36,320 questions in in order first 640 00:24:40,630 --> 00:24:38,799 sadly what happens on campus no longer 641 00:24:41,590 --> 00:24:40,640 stays on campus 642 00:24:44,830 --> 00:24:41,600 these 643 00:24:47,269 --> 00:24:44,840 theories are becoming much more 644 00:24:48,950 --> 00:24:47,279 ubiquitous they are infiltrating in some 645 00:24:50,870 --> 00:24:48,960 areas into the investment world this 646 00:24:53,669 --> 00:24:50,880 whole bds movement 647 00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:53,679 a boycott this divest and sanction 648 00:24:56,950 --> 00:24:55,360 is a direct 649 00:24:59,830 --> 00:24:56,960 heir to 650 00:25:02,710 --> 00:24:59,840 what happened on campus bds started in 651 00:25:04,710 --> 00:25:02,720 well actually and we can go off in this 652 00:25:06,789 --> 00:25:04,720 i want to answer your question but bds 653 00:25:08,390 --> 00:25:06,799 actually started on the far right bds 654 00:25:10,230 --> 00:25:08,400 has been around since they were painting 655 00:25:12,549 --> 00:25:10,240 black smears 656 00:25:13,830 --> 00:25:12,559 on jewish shopkeepers in spectrum 657 00:25:15,510 --> 00:25:13,840 lithuania 658 00:25:18,149 --> 00:25:15,520 to tell people not to shop because this 659 00:25:20,549 --> 00:25:18,159 was a jewish shopkeeper and that was 660 00:25:23,110 --> 00:25:20,559 part of what prepared people for 661 00:25:24,710 --> 00:25:23,120 you know hand over the jews to say 662 00:25:25,590 --> 00:25:24,720 they're so evil 663 00:25:27,830 --> 00:25:25,600 so 664 00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:27,840 the first modern bds was actually again 665 00:25:32,149 --> 00:25:30,000 on the far right william luther pierce 666 00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:32,159 who was a neo-nazi a famous american 667 00:25:35,750 --> 00:25:34,000 neo-nazi who set up i think the national 668 00:25:37,669 --> 00:25:35,760 alliance party tried to get mcdonald 669 00:25:38,950 --> 00:25:37,679 douglas not to send 670 00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:38,960 they he sponsored a shareholder 671 00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:40,799 resolution not to 672 00:25:45,990 --> 00:25:43,840 have them resupply israel so 673 00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:46,000 bds started on the right but it was 674 00:25:50,710 --> 00:25:48,000 adopted on campus 675 00:25:51,669 --> 00:25:50,720 and it's being used today 676 00:25:53,669 --> 00:25:51,679 and 677 00:25:56,710 --> 00:25:53,679 the general dialogue 678 00:25:58,950 --> 00:25:56,720 on in in other areas look at the new 679 00:26:01,269 --> 00:25:58,960 york times the new york times 680 00:26:03,029 --> 00:26:01,279 published an article 681 00:26:04,710 --> 00:26:03,039 in which uh there was an interview 682 00:26:06,470 --> 00:26:04,720 endorsing 683 00:26:07,430 --> 00:26:06,480 david icke's book which you've probably 684 00:26:08,950 --> 00:26:07,440 heard of 685 00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:08,960 um 686 00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:11,200 set you free well this says that the 687 00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:13,760 jews both started the holocaust that 688 00:26:17,669 --> 00:26:15,840 hitler was a nazi that i'm sorry hitler 689 00:26:19,990 --> 00:26:17,679 was jewish they both started the 690 00:26:21,830 --> 00:26:20,000 holocaust and funded the holocaust they 691 00:26:23,830 --> 00:26:21,840 i mean it's the most garbled thing that 692 00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:23,840 the talmud is the most evilest book in 693 00:26:26,549 --> 00:26:25,200 the world 694 00:26:27,990 --> 00:26:26,559 and 695 00:26:30,630 --> 00:26:28,000 this is now out there in the new york 696 00:26:33,669 --> 00:26:30,640 times reported on this uncritically 697 00:26:36,310 --> 00:26:33,679 because if you go to campus now this 698 00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:36,320 criticism of jews and only jews 699 00:26:42,950 --> 00:26:40,400 in print is acceptable somehow so i 700 00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:42,960 don't go with your premise that what 701 00:26:48,149 --> 00:26:45,360 happens on campus stays on campus 702 00:26:51,669 --> 00:26:48,159 um and a lot of these folks also are big 703 00:26:53,590 --> 00:26:51,679 tweeters and interviewers and are part 704 00:26:55,669 --> 00:26:53,600 of that now 705 00:26:57,909 --> 00:26:55,679 the tougher question that you ask i 706 00:26:59,110 --> 00:26:57,919 think so i don't think i'm punching down 707 00:27:01,269 --> 00:26:59,120 actually i think i'm punching up and 708 00:27:03,590 --> 00:27:01,279 they probably are ignoring it 709 00:27:05,750 --> 00:27:03,600 the bigger question is 710 00:27:08,070 --> 00:27:05,760 cancel culture and how do we deal with 711 00:27:09,990 --> 00:27:08,080 people who have 712 00:27:13,029 --> 00:27:10,000 strange ideas about certain things but 713 00:27:16,230 --> 00:27:13,039 in other areas may be brilliant kant for 714 00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:16,240 example i mean we think of him as the 715 00:27:21,029 --> 00:27:18,880 founder of modern reasoned morality well 716 00:27:22,230 --> 00:27:21,039 he hated blacks 717 00:27:24,389 --> 00:27:22,240 he was a 718 00:27:25,909 --> 00:27:24,399 amazing racist 719 00:27:27,590 --> 00:27:25,919 confucius 720 00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:27,600 who we again 721 00:27:32,470 --> 00:27:29,360 wise person 722 00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:32,480 we he was a chinese supremacist 723 00:27:36,549 --> 00:27:34,240 and the list goes on and on there you 724 00:27:37,430 --> 00:27:36,559 know in africa you know i mean there 725 00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:37,440 were 726 00:27:47,110 --> 00:27:45,360 goes on and on you have in the modern 727 00:27:49,590 --> 00:27:47,120 day heidegger 728 00:27:51,830 --> 00:27:49,600 he was a nazi we didn't know it for sure 729 00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:51,840 at the time you know until the mod until 730 00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:54,080 his those notebooks the so-called black 731 00:27:57,029 --> 00:27:55,840 notebooks were released but he was a 732 00:27:59,190 --> 00:27:57,039 nazi 733 00:28:01,750 --> 00:27:59,200 should we stop reading 734 00:28:04,149 --> 00:28:01,760 his all of what he wrote some of it was 735 00:28:07,350 --> 00:28:04,159 absolutely brilliant i think we have to 736 00:28:09,830 --> 00:28:07,360 recognize that within some folks 737 00:28:12,470 --> 00:28:09,840 both on the far right and the far left 738 00:28:13,990 --> 00:28:12,480 that we can't excuse 739 00:28:17,110 --> 00:28:14,000 their 740 00:28:19,510 --> 00:28:17,120 strange ideas we can't excuse them but 741 00:28:21,110 --> 00:28:19,520 nor can we excise them 742 00:28:22,950 --> 00:28:21,120 so 743 00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:22,960 we have to look at them both you know 744 00:28:27,669 --> 00:28:25,440 watson fred with watson who 745 00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:27,679 co-discovered dna 746 00:28:32,230 --> 00:28:29,679 also has said racist things but should 747 00:28:34,630 --> 00:28:32,240 we get rid of dna research 748 00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:34,640 should we not take what he wrote of 749 00:28:37,590 --> 00:28:35,760 course not 750 00:28:39,110 --> 00:28:37,600 that means it's harder for us as 751 00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:39,120 thinking people 752 00:28:42,149 --> 00:28:41,120 to to do this but we shouldn't cancel 753 00:28:44,230 --> 00:28:42,159 people 754 00:28:47,029 --> 00:28:44,240 so i just interviewed i just interviewed 755 00:28:49,269 --> 00:28:47,039 a guy from google pretty high level guy 756 00:28:51,029 --> 00:28:49,279 mainly in the ai department i mean 757 00:28:54,389 --> 00:28:51,039 google is 758 00:28:55,990 --> 00:28:54,399 manipulating and canceling demonetizing 759 00:28:57,909 --> 00:28:56,000 all that stuff 760 00:28:59,750 --> 00:28:57,919 how do you just so how do you come down 761 00:29:02,149 --> 00:28:59,760 on that don't cancel anyone there's no 762 00:29:03,669 --> 00:29:02,159 such thing as hate speech everything is 763 00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:03,679 kind of okay where do you draw the line 764 00:29:08,470 --> 00:29:06,000 we all have the line to draw i draw 765 00:29:10,350 --> 00:29:08,480 pretty i draw it pretty much like 766 00:29:13,110 --> 00:29:10,360 free speech is 767 00:29:15,909 --> 00:29:13,120 foundational to this whole experiment 768 00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:15,919 we're in so i'm very very uncomfortable 769 00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:17,600 with the 770 00:29:21,110 --> 00:29:19,600 hidden demonetization they don't even 771 00:29:22,710 --> 00:29:21,120 have any rules or guidelines and they've 772 00:29:24,789 --> 00:29:22,720 done it for years and not told anyone 773 00:29:26,470 --> 00:29:24,799 and now they're finally exposed but i 774 00:29:28,789 --> 00:29:26,480 think that's that's just 775 00:29:31,750 --> 00:29:28,799 very dangerous 776 00:29:33,990 --> 00:29:31,760 yeah i would say i would say 777 00:29:35,990 --> 00:29:34,000 the problem is today the line is drawn 778 00:29:38,389 --> 00:29:36,000 very close to whatever that person 779 00:29:40,549 --> 00:29:38,399 organization happens to believe 780 00:29:44,549 --> 00:29:40,559 this is our modern press why do we 781 00:29:46,950 --> 00:29:44,559 accept that they can control censor and 782 00:29:49,750 --> 00:29:46,960 politicize their narrative look 783 00:29:51,510 --> 00:29:49,760 generally i agree i think free speech is 784 00:29:52,630 --> 00:29:51,520 the foundation 785 00:29:53,510 --> 00:29:52,640 of 786 00:29:56,870 --> 00:29:53,520 the 787 00:29:58,389 --> 00:29:56,880 of civil society of civic society of 788 00:30:00,230 --> 00:29:58,399 the united states 789 00:30:02,710 --> 00:30:00,240 and i'm in favor of free speech even 790 00:30:05,909 --> 00:30:02,720 when i totally disagree with it i'm not 791 00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:05,919 in favor i would not say to cancel butts 792 00:30:09,830 --> 00:30:07,360 book i think 793 00:30:11,269 --> 00:30:09,840 rather it has to be carefully read as i 794 00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:11,279 did 795 00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:14,480 and recognize that it's a pack of lies 796 00:30:18,470 --> 00:30:15,840 but 797 00:30:20,870 --> 00:30:18,480 it's out there and to try to squash it i 798 00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:20,880 think is actually going to make it more 799 00:30:24,470 --> 00:30:23,440 attractive i agree 800 00:30:27,269 --> 00:30:24,480 let's go to something a little bit 801 00:30:29,669 --> 00:30:27,279 harder because the other 802 00:30:30,950 --> 00:30:29,679 i guess concern i had with the book 803 00:30:34,389 --> 00:30:30,960 is that 804 00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:34,399 you know when i think about anti-zionist 805 00:30:37,590 --> 00:30:35,200 or 806 00:30:39,510 --> 00:30:37,600 anti-semitic anti-jewish and i'm not 807 00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:39,520 even sure that we can 808 00:30:42,310 --> 00:30:40,960 that sometimes when you combine all 809 00:30:44,310 --> 00:30:42,320 those together i'm a little bit 810 00:30:46,070 --> 00:30:44,320 uncomfortable but you you definitely at 811 00:30:47,990 --> 00:30:46,080 the beginning of this interview 812 00:30:50,310 --> 00:30:48,000 spelled out kind of my point that you 813 00:30:52,070 --> 00:30:50,320 know there's all sorts of people of the 814 00:30:53,750 --> 00:30:52,080 this is you you know this the jewish 815 00:30:55,669 --> 00:30:53,760 tradition who might not agree with you 816 00:30:57,590 --> 00:30:55,679 politically might not agree with the 817 00:31:00,950 --> 00:30:57,600 politics of 818 00:31:03,029 --> 00:31:00,960 israel or even the zionist agenda as it 819 00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:03,039 is the religious state for the jewish 820 00:31:06,630 --> 00:31:04,960 people all sorts of different opinions 821 00:31:08,310 --> 00:31:06,640 out there of people that have a jewish 822 00:31:10,310 --> 00:31:08,320 tradition as well as other people like 823 00:31:12,789 --> 00:31:10,320 they have a voice in this too but here 824 00:31:15,269 --> 00:31:12,799 are the anti you know when i think scott 825 00:31:18,310 --> 00:31:15,279 when i think of anti-zionist 826 00:31:19,990 --> 00:31:18,320 conspiracy theories i think of this i'll 827 00:31:22,470 --> 00:31:20,000 pop it up on the screen here and show 828 00:31:24,389 --> 00:31:22,480 you i'll read it so people can hear it 829 00:31:27,110 --> 00:31:24,399 gaslane maxwell and her pedophile lover 830 00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:27,120 jeffrey upstein were both israeli spies 831 00:31:32,230 --> 00:31:29,440 who took pictures of powerful men having 832 00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:32,240 sex with underage girls to blackmail 833 00:31:37,269 --> 00:31:34,960 them their alleged mossad handler has 834 00:31:40,470 --> 00:31:37,279 sensationally claimed now i would just 835 00:31:42,070 --> 00:31:40,480 add that that alleged mossad handler 836 00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:42,080 kind of stands up to scrutiny pretty 837 00:31:45,990 --> 00:31:44,320 well he was tried in court and was 838 00:31:48,789 --> 00:31:46,000 actually acquitted because he showed 839 00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:48,799 that he was an agent of israel in his 840 00:31:55,750 --> 00:31:52,000 arms dealing i'm not here to 841 00:31:58,230 --> 00:31:55,760 hammer out you know to flesh out what 842 00:32:00,389 --> 00:31:58,240 but there's some factual evidence here 843 00:32:02,950 --> 00:32:00,399 you know maxwell's father 844 00:32:06,149 --> 00:32:02,960 is is definitely massage he gets a state 845 00:32:07,990 --> 00:32:06,159 funeral in in israel where the prime 846 00:32:10,149 --> 00:32:08,000 several prime ministers are there and 847 00:32:12,870 --> 00:32:10,159 all the top intelligence guys are there 848 00:32:15,470 --> 00:32:12,880 so there's fact behind this this is the 849 00:32:17,909 --> 00:32:15,480 kind of stuff that when i think of 850 00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:17,919 anti-zionist and i wouldn't go so far as 851 00:32:24,710 --> 00:32:22,000 to say that with this but that to me is 852 00:32:27,269 --> 00:32:24,720 what we need to talk about not some 853 00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:27,279 wacky you know professor with the whole 854 00:32:31,750 --> 00:32:29,360 hoax idea 855 00:32:33,430 --> 00:32:31,760 well look first of all i'd like to say 856 00:32:34,789 --> 00:32:33,440 this 857 00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:34,799 what happened 858 00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:36,720 with the anti-zionists 859 00:32:41,830 --> 00:32:39,600 say is something separate i mean they're 860 00:32:43,350 --> 00:32:41,840 by the way i have no idea if that's 861 00:32:44,950 --> 00:32:43,360 right wrong or indifferent i've never 862 00:32:47,269 --> 00:32:44,960 heard that or seen that before you put 863 00:32:50,630 --> 00:32:47,279 it up on the screen so i don't i don't 864 00:32:52,389 --> 00:32:50,640 express any opinion but i will say this 865 00:32:55,029 --> 00:32:52,399 the united states has done despicable 866 00:32:57,750 --> 00:32:55,039 things a lot of countries do despicable 867 00:32:59,269 --> 00:32:57,760 things um 868 00:33:02,470 --> 00:32:59,279 recently 869 00:33:05,830 --> 00:33:02,480 iran massacred 1500 protesters you know 870 00:33:09,430 --> 00:33:05,840 not so nice to kill 1500 euros citizens 871 00:33:11,669 --> 00:33:09,440 nobody says let's abolish iraq 872 00:33:14,230 --> 00:33:11,679 i haven't heard people say 873 00:33:16,950 --> 00:33:14,240 you know from border to border let's 874 00:33:20,630 --> 00:33:16,960 exterminate or expel 875 00:33:22,310 --> 00:33:20,640 all iranians and end their state 876 00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:22,320 that is what they that is what the 877 00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:26,480 anti-zionists say hamas says that openly 878 00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:30,000 bds says openly the founder says no 879 00:33:33,750 --> 00:33:31,519 jewish state 880 00:33:35,350 --> 00:33:33,760 period so there's a difference and this 881 00:33:37,430 --> 00:33:35,360 is what i was starting 882 00:33:39,190 --> 00:33:37,440 what i sort of was i wanted 883 00:33:41,590 --> 00:33:39,200 it was hinting at a little bit you can 884 00:33:44,149 --> 00:33:41,600 have harsh criticism you can say you 885 00:33:45,830 --> 00:33:44,159 want to vote this government out you can 886 00:33:47,909 --> 00:33:45,840 say a lot of things 887 00:33:49,590 --> 00:33:47,919 but that's very different than saying 888 00:33:51,430 --> 00:33:49,600 and what the anti-zionists are doing 889 00:33:53,909 --> 00:33:51,440 which is saying that the jews don't have 890 00:33:55,430 --> 00:33:53,919 a right to self-determination 891 00:33:58,470 --> 00:33:55,440 you could say 892 00:34:00,310 --> 00:33:58,480 cia is bad you can say a lot of spy 893 00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:00,320 organizations are bad again i'm not 894 00:34:07,750 --> 00:34:04,159 opining on that but that's the criticism 895 00:34:10,389 --> 00:34:07,760 of israel is different 896 00:34:11,109 --> 00:34:10,399 by an order of magnitude from criticisms 897 00:34:13,990 --> 00:34:11,119 of 898 00:34:17,109 --> 00:34:14,000 every other country on this earth 899 00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:17,119 i get that and i think you 900 00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:19,520 your book does an excellent job of 901 00:34:23,510 --> 00:34:22,240 bringing that into focus and reminding 902 00:34:25,430 --> 00:34:23,520 us 903 00:34:27,909 --> 00:34:25,440 that that's still out there and it's not 904 00:34:30,230 --> 00:34:27,919 something we can just kind of blow past 905 00:34:33,990 --> 00:34:30,240 i do wonder and i'm going to throw one 906 00:34:36,470 --> 00:34:34,000 more out there which is another kind of 907 00:34:39,270 --> 00:34:36,480 i guess fuel for 908 00:34:40,950 --> 00:34:39,280 the extreme anti-zionist conspiracies 909 00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:40,960 that you're talking about 910 00:34:45,270 --> 00:34:42,720 is the more serious 911 00:34:47,430 --> 00:34:45,280 kind of anti-zionist conspiracies that 912 00:34:48,790 --> 00:34:47,440 we would need to kind of consider or 913 00:34:50,950 --> 00:34:48,800 throw on the table so i'm going to throw 914 00:34:52,629 --> 00:34:50,960 one out another one and 915 00:34:54,470 --> 00:34:52,639 again i'm doing nothing other than 916 00:34:57,750 --> 00:34:54,480 reading a mainstream newspaper this 917 00:35:00,150 --> 00:34:57,760 one's in scotland this has been debunked 918 00:35:02,069 --> 00:35:00,160 look i know that you know this one 919 00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:02,079 actually makes me angry because there's 920 00:35:05,349 --> 00:35:04,160 so many jews who were murdered in that 921 00:35:08,390 --> 00:35:05,359 tower 922 00:35:10,150 --> 00:35:08,400 i mean i find this reprehensible and 923 00:35:12,710 --> 00:35:10,160 there were supposedly photos of people 924 00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:12,720 dancing who were muslims around a mosque 925 00:35:15,910 --> 00:35:14,160 everybody's got their own freaking 926 00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:15,920 conspiracy theory about this this is 927 00:35:23,990 --> 00:35:22,310 i mean it's it's it's it's it's 928 00:35:25,750 --> 00:35:24,000 i anybody can write anything about 929 00:35:27,030 --> 00:35:25,760 anything well let me just make sure 930 00:35:29,190 --> 00:35:27,040 we're talking about the same thing 931 00:35:32,630 --> 00:35:29,200 because there's a lot of conspiracy 932 00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:32,640 theories around 9 11 that tie into 933 00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:34,800 israeli mossad 934 00:35:38,630 --> 00:35:36,480 this one again 935 00:35:40,150 --> 00:35:38,640 maybe you have data to the contrary and 936 00:35:41,430 --> 00:35:40,160 that's okay i just want to make sure 937 00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:41,440 that people know what we're talking 938 00:35:45,670 --> 00:35:42,240 about 939 00:35:48,550 --> 00:35:45,680 here is again from the harold scotland 940 00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:48,560 longest-standing newspaper in scotland 941 00:35:51,910 --> 00:35:50,400 there was rune and terror in manhattan 942 00:35:54,310 --> 00:35:51,920 but over on the hudson river in new 943 00:35:55,670 --> 00:35:54,320 jersey a handful of men were dancing as 944 00:35:57,829 --> 00:35:55,680 the world trainer center burned and 945 00:36:00,150 --> 00:35:57,839 crumbled five men celebrated and filmed 946 00:36:03,030 --> 00:36:00,160 the worst trust atrocity ever committed 947 00:36:04,470 --> 00:36:03,040 on us on american soil as it played out 948 00:36:06,710 --> 00:36:04,480 before their eyes 949 00:36:09,190 --> 00:36:06,720 they were israelis and at least two of 950 00:36:14,069 --> 00:36:09,200 them were israel israeli intelligence 951 00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:14,079 agents working for massad so 952 00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:16,640 i've looked in once 953 00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:18,240 this is made up 954 00:36:23,109 --> 00:36:21,040 this is this concept and i i really find 955 00:36:25,109 --> 00:36:23,119 this frankly repugnant because there are 956 00:36:27,750 --> 00:36:25,119 again also photos if you want to go to 957 00:36:29,829 --> 00:36:27,760 jersey city their photos are supposedly 958 00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:29,839 muslims dancing and handing out candy 959 00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:32,480 and beeping horns you know 960 00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:35,040 this is not sourced 961 00:36:39,589 --> 00:36:38,400 um and it's it is sourced there's f 962 00:36:44,390 --> 00:36:39,599 there's fbi 963 00:36:46,950 --> 00:36:44,400 were released in the foia and these guys 964 00:36:49,109 --> 00:36:46,960 were sent back to israel two months 965 00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:49,119 after without any 966 00:36:52,470 --> 00:36:50,640 investigation and they appeared on 967 00:36:53,829 --> 00:36:52,480 israeli tv but i don't want to get into 968 00:36:55,430 --> 00:36:53,839 hashing out those details but i'm 969 00:36:56,550 --> 00:36:55,440 telling you scott i'm not coming in at 970 00:36:59,190 --> 00:36:56,560 this 971 00:37:02,069 --> 00:36:59,200 it's a as some wild wacky kind of 972 00:37:03,829 --> 00:37:02,079 conspiracy nut thing anyone who goes 973 00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:03,839 investigated there's there's plenty of 974 00:37:09,349 --> 00:37:06,160 evidence who knows how edging 975 00:37:11,750 --> 00:37:09,359 that the 19 hijackers 976 00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:11,760 from saudi arabia and elsewhere didn't 977 00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:15,520 plot this with isis to destroy 978 00:37:20,950 --> 00:37:17,280 the world trade centers and effectively 979 00:37:25,750 --> 00:37:23,829 zionist plot i mean i i'm definitely not 980 00:37:28,230 --> 00:37:25,760 i'm definitely not saying that it's a 981 00:37:30,470 --> 00:37:28,240 zionist plot and the way i'm trying to 982 00:37:32,150 --> 00:37:30,480 bring it back into focus with 983 00:37:33,829 --> 00:37:32,160 your book again 984 00:37:35,270 --> 00:37:33,839 conspiracy u 985 00:37:38,150 --> 00:37:35,280 is that 986 00:37:40,150 --> 00:37:38,160 i think we have to look at the role 987 00:37:42,630 --> 00:37:40,160 conspiracy theories 988 00:37:45,109 --> 00:37:42,640 are playing in our culture in both a 989 00:37:47,589 --> 00:37:45,119 positive and a negative way so i don't 990 00:37:49,190 --> 00:37:47,599 think we're too far apart on this and i 991 00:37:51,270 --> 00:37:49,200 think there's going to be conspiracy 992 00:37:52,390 --> 00:37:51,280 theories that are going to gaslight 993 00:37:56,710 --> 00:37:52,400 all of us 994 00:37:59,510 --> 00:37:56,720 and i think we have to find a way to 995 00:38:01,430 --> 00:37:59,520 i guess embrace them in the same way 996 00:38:03,829 --> 00:38:01,440 that you're exposing 997 00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:03,839 a couple of very important you've 998 00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:05,760 convinced me in the book and in this 999 00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:08,160 interview very important conspiracy 1000 00:38:12,950 --> 00:38:10,640 theories in academia 1001 00:38:15,910 --> 00:38:12,960 i'm just saying i think we have to have 1002 00:38:17,030 --> 00:38:15,920 a different attitude about conspiracies 1003 00:38:19,270 --> 00:38:17,040 theories 1004 00:38:21,589 --> 00:38:19,280 that i didn't exactly get 1005 00:38:23,349 --> 00:38:21,599 from your book even though i think it it 1006 00:38:25,030 --> 00:38:23,359 was very convincing about some of the 1007 00:38:27,270 --> 00:38:25,040 ones that you met so that that's my 1008 00:38:29,750 --> 00:38:27,280 point and then i've i definitely i'm 1009 00:38:30,790 --> 00:38:29,760 open to you know your your feedback on 1010 00:38:33,430 --> 00:38:30,800 that 1011 00:38:35,349 --> 00:38:33,440 well again i think you have to you have 1012 00:38:37,829 --> 00:38:35,359 you have a you can have theories about 1013 00:38:39,510 --> 00:38:37,839 conspiracies i'm not using the warn or 1014 00:38:42,310 --> 00:38:39,520 the cia language you can have theories 1015 00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:42,320 about conspiracies and then you have to 1016 00:38:46,230 --> 00:38:43,920 evaluate them 1017 00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:46,240 um there was a ton of research done the 1018 00:38:51,430 --> 00:38:48,720 911 commission and others both what's 1019 00:38:53,109 --> 00:38:51,440 been classified and declassified and 1020 00:38:55,030 --> 00:38:53,119 even more has been declassified during 1021 00:38:58,710 --> 00:38:55,040 the biden administration 1022 00:39:00,390 --> 00:38:58,720 um and it's pretty clear what happened 1023 00:39:01,190 --> 00:39:00,400 um but 1024 00:39:05,270 --> 00:39:01,200 i'm 1025 00:39:08,069 --> 00:39:05,280 again what the thing that concerns me is 1026 00:39:09,750 --> 00:39:08,079 that anytime something bad happens 1027 00:39:11,990 --> 00:39:09,760 in the united states or elsewhere there 1028 00:39:15,349 --> 00:39:12,000 is a reflex to somehow blame it on the 1029 00:39:18,069 --> 00:39:15,359 jews climate change now is being blamed 1030 00:39:19,750 --> 00:39:18,079 on jewish oppression of gaza it doesn't 1031 00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:19,760 matter that there are you know 1032 00:39:24,069 --> 00:39:22,320 smokestacks in china or elsewhere 1033 00:39:27,670 --> 00:39:24,079 um with burning coal that's somehow 1034 00:39:29,270 --> 00:39:27,680 blamed on the jews george floyd 1035 00:39:31,910 --> 00:39:29,280 300 1036 00:39:32,870 --> 00:39:31,920 university organizations 1037 00:39:34,950 --> 00:39:32,880 said 1038 00:39:37,349 --> 00:39:34,960 this is somehow the zionist jews fault i 1039 00:39:39,829 --> 00:39:37,359 mean there's a impulse that when 1040 00:39:42,470 --> 00:39:39,839 something bad happens 1041 00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:42,480 now knowing people that died in that 1042 00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:44,240 tower 1043 00:39:49,030 --> 00:39:46,560 i i have to say i can't hold back an 1044 00:39:51,910 --> 00:39:49,040 emotional reaction 1045 00:39:53,589 --> 00:39:51,920 knowing jews who died in that tower 1046 00:39:56,470 --> 00:39:53,599 i just can't hold back an emotional 1047 00:39:59,109 --> 00:39:56,480 reaction to seeing that what you put up 1048 00:40:02,710 --> 00:39:59,119 i'm sorry if i sounded a little loud but 1049 00:40:05,910 --> 00:40:02,720 i i you know it it definitely 1050 00:40:08,309 --> 00:40:05,920 hits a raw nerve because uh 1051 00:40:11,430 --> 00:40:08,319 they were involved jews and they were 1052 00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:11,440 good people and they were murdered 1053 00:40:15,190 --> 00:40:13,680 and so that's tough for me totally i 1054 00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:15,200 totally get that i'll tell you what in 1055 00:40:20,230 --> 00:40:17,280 the time that's left 1056 00:40:23,349 --> 00:40:20,240 tell folks about some of your other 1057 00:40:25,030 --> 00:40:23,359 books and your work in general because 1058 00:40:26,790 --> 00:40:25,040 and the reason i want you to do that and 1059 00:40:29,430 --> 00:40:26,800 we can't possibly get to that in this 1060 00:40:31,349 --> 00:40:29,440 interview i think it starts to get back 1061 00:40:34,390 --> 00:40:31,359 to the root core of this which is 1062 00:40:36,550 --> 00:40:34,400 spirituality which is atheism i think 1063 00:40:40,390 --> 00:40:36,560 atheism is the root cause of what you 1064 00:40:43,109 --> 00:40:40,400 see in academia if we're able to advance 1065 00:40:45,349 --> 00:40:43,119 without criticism this idea that we're 1066 00:40:47,430 --> 00:40:45,359 meaningless biological robots in a 1067 00:40:49,910 --> 00:40:47,440 meaningless universe i think it is the 1068 00:40:52,309 --> 00:40:49,920 first conspiracy that opens up this door 1069 00:40:54,550 --> 00:40:52,319 i'm not a religious person but i think 1070 00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:54,560 that you're onto something 1071 00:40:58,309 --> 00:40:56,640 when you're putting your finger on it in 1072 00:41:00,790 --> 00:40:58,319 those other books so tell us about that 1073 00:41:03,190 --> 00:41:00,800 as we wrap this up so thank you first of 1074 00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:03,200 all my previous book i this my third 1075 00:41:07,990 --> 00:41:05,520 book conspiracy you a case study but my 1076 00:41:10,870 --> 00:41:08,000 previous book in good faith 1077 00:41:13,190 --> 00:41:10,880 um talked about spirituality was in good 1078 00:41:14,870 --> 00:41:13,200 faith questioning religion and atheism 1079 00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:14,880 and i will give you the punchline since 1080 00:41:18,710 --> 00:41:16,800 we don't have a lot of time 1081 00:41:21,030 --> 00:41:18,720 the one thing that i came that is the 1082 00:41:23,670 --> 00:41:21,040 common cause that is what i think the 1083 00:41:25,430 --> 00:41:23,680 most basic moral value 1084 00:41:28,950 --> 00:41:25,440 is the golden rule 1085 00:41:30,230 --> 00:41:28,960 expressed negatively the way hillel did 1086 00:41:33,349 --> 00:41:30,240 don't do 1087 00:41:35,270 --> 00:41:33,359 unto someone else what would be hateful 1088 00:41:37,109 --> 00:41:35,280 if it were done to you in other words 1089 00:41:39,030 --> 00:41:37,119 treat don't treat anybody else the way 1090 00:41:41,030 --> 00:41:39,040 you wouldn't want to be treated don't 1091 00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:41,040 think about it groups don't think about 1092 00:41:46,390 --> 00:41:43,520 identities think about that individual 1093 00:41:47,190 --> 00:41:46,400 person because we all share in hillel's 1094 00:41:48,550 --> 00:41:47,200 view 1095 00:41:51,030 --> 00:41:48,560 a common 1096 00:41:54,550 --> 00:41:51,040 spark of the divine or if you're an 1097 00:41:56,550 --> 00:41:54,560 atheist a common spark of humanity 1098 00:42:00,630 --> 00:41:56,560 and my whole book the whole in good 1099 00:42:02,550 --> 00:42:00,640 faith is about finding the common ground 1100 00:42:05,589 --> 00:42:02,560 between religion 1101 00:42:08,470 --> 00:42:05,599 and between ethical atheism 1102 00:42:09,990 --> 00:42:08,480 and what i find is the biggest problem 1103 00:42:20,870 --> 00:42:10,000 is 1104 00:42:22,870 --> 00:42:20,880 and what they really aren't too many 1105 00:42:24,950 --> 00:42:22,880 religious quote unquote religious people 1106 00:42:27,430 --> 00:42:24,960 are they're really idolaters 1107 00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:27,440 and here's the problem we talk about 1108 00:42:32,790 --> 00:42:30,240 idolatry like it's some quaint bowing 1109 00:42:34,470 --> 00:42:32,800 down to idols but in reality and if your 1110 00:42:36,150 --> 00:42:34,480 listeners just remember one thing from 1111 00:42:38,069 --> 00:42:36,160 this interview that i hope they they 1112 00:42:41,589 --> 00:42:38,079 list they remember the following 1113 00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:41,599 idolatry is actually a set about lies 1114 00:42:48,230 --> 00:42:44,400 is a set of lies about power it's about 1115 00:42:51,510 --> 00:42:48,240 ascribing super authority or superpowers 1116 00:42:53,270 --> 00:42:51,520 or some mysterious forces to finite 1117 00:42:59,910 --> 00:42:53,280 beings like 1118 00:43:02,710 --> 00:42:59,920 kings like fair or ideologies like 1119 00:43:05,349 --> 00:43:02,720 communism and otherisms and so we may 1120 00:43:08,470 --> 00:43:05,359 have thought we licked idolatry 1121 00:43:11,510 --> 00:43:08,480 33 years ago but in reality hitler 1122 00:43:13,829 --> 00:43:11,520 stalin the assad family the kim family 1123 00:43:16,230 --> 00:43:13,839 and i can go on and on use the same 1124 00:43:17,349 --> 00:43:16,240 tropes of ancient pharaoh 1125 00:43:20,309 --> 00:43:17,359 power 1126 00:43:21,030 --> 00:43:20,319 pageantry myth theater all backed up 1127 00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:21,040 with 1128 00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:23,920 secret army secret informers and and and 1129 00:43:28,870 --> 00:43:26,640 strong police and armies 1130 00:43:31,589 --> 00:43:28,880 and it's at both the macro level and the 1131 00:43:33,990 --> 00:43:31,599 micro level at the micro level 1132 00:43:37,270 --> 00:43:34,000 i think idolatry explains how people 1133 00:43:39,030 --> 00:43:37,280 like charlie rose and harvey weinstein 1134 00:43:40,309 --> 00:43:39,040 and matt lauer got away with what they 1135 00:43:41,990 --> 00:43:40,319 got away with because they were 1136 00:43:43,910 --> 00:43:42,000 considered idols 1137 00:43:45,430 --> 00:43:43,920 they had super authority in their in 1138 00:43:46,910 --> 00:43:45,440 their arenas 1139 00:43:49,750 --> 00:43:46,920 so they were unquestioned and 1140 00:43:52,069 --> 00:43:49,760 unquestionable until there was enough 1141 00:43:53,589 --> 00:43:52,079 weight of evidence against them 1142 00:43:55,430 --> 00:43:53,599 and that 1143 00:43:57,190 --> 00:43:55,440 too could be called in a sense 1144 00:43:58,710 --> 00:43:57,200 conspiracy theories i mean we could get 1145 00:43:59,990 --> 00:43:58,720 that would be a whole other broadcast 1146 00:44:01,270 --> 00:44:00,000 how they got away with what they got 1147 00:44:04,550 --> 00:44:01,280 away with 1148 00:44:06,950 --> 00:44:04,560 so i really am passionate about that and 1149 00:44:08,790 --> 00:44:06,960 and so i'm really passionate my writing 1150 00:44:09,829 --> 00:44:08,800 in good faith was a five-year project 1151 00:44:10,870 --> 00:44:09,839 for me 1152 00:44:12,069 --> 00:44:10,880 um 1153 00:44:13,829 --> 00:44:12,079 and uh 1154 00:44:15,510 --> 00:44:13,839 and i think it's a you know i really do 1155 00:44:18,309 --> 00:44:15,520 think it's an important book 1156 00:44:19,589 --> 00:44:18,319 fantastic our guest again has been scott 1157 00:44:22,309 --> 00:44:19,599 shea the book you're going to want to 1158 00:44:23,670 --> 00:44:22,319 check out the latest one conspiracy u a 1159 00:44:25,990 --> 00:44:23,680 case study 1160 00:44:28,630 --> 00:44:26,000 but that other one sounds like a perfect 1161 00:44:30,390 --> 00:44:28,640 skeptico pairing with that scott it's 1162 00:44:32,390 --> 00:44:30,400 been terrific having on the show thank 1163 00:44:34,309 --> 00:44:32,400 you so much for joining me 1164 00:44:35,190 --> 00:44:34,319 alex it's really been a pleasure thank 1165 00:44:36,950 --> 00:44:35,200 you 1166 00:44:39,430 --> 00:44:36,960 thanks again to scotch a for joining me 1167 00:44:41,670 --> 00:44:39,440 today on skeptico the one question i t 1168 00:44:44,870 --> 00:44:41,680 up from this interview is kind of the 1169 00:44:47,270 --> 00:44:44,880 big one what do you make of anti-zionist 1170 00:44:48,790 --> 00:44:47,280 conspiracy theories scott makes a really 1171 00:44:50,950 --> 00:44:48,800 strong case about a couple of them that 1172 00:44:52,710 --> 00:44:50,960 weren't on my radar that we might want 1173 00:44:53,910 --> 00:44:52,720 to pay attention to 1174 00:44:56,230 --> 00:44:53,920 on the other hand there's a couple that 1175 00:44:58,550 --> 00:44:56,240 don't seem to pop up on his radar so 1176 00:45:00,710 --> 00:44:58,560 what are your thoughts about that let me 1177 00:45:02,870 --> 00:45:00,720 know join me over in the skeptical forum 1178 00:45:04,950 --> 00:45:02,880 which i would really invite you to join 1179 00:45:07,190 --> 00:45:04,960 me on the skeptical forum particularly 1180 00:45:09,430 --> 00:45:07,200 if you want to have a next level 1181 00:45:11,349 --> 00:45:09,440 dialogue it's not a place just for 1182 00:45:13,109 --> 00:45:11,359 venting you have to have some thinking 1183 00:45:15,589 --> 00:45:13,119 behind your opinion maybe some 1184 00:45:17,270 --> 00:45:15,599 references links that kind of stuff but 1185 00:45:19,030 --> 00:45:17,280 that's all in the spirit that i talked 1186 00:45:20,870 --> 00:45:19,040 about at the beginning of let's grow 1187 00:45:24,309 --> 00:45:20,880 this community and let's grow it the way 1188 00:45:26,790 --> 00:45:24,319 we want with people who want to engage 1189 00:45:29,270 --> 00:45:26,800 in intelligent dialogues 1190 00:45:32,150 --> 00:45:29,280 tough dialogues but intelligent dialogue 1191 00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:32,160 so i will leave you with a reminder of 1192 00:45:35,589 --> 00:45:33,760 that if you can 1193 00:45:37,430 --> 00:45:35,599 help me out in that way 1194 00:45:39,510 --> 00:45:37,440 i would greatly appreciate it 1195 00:45:41,990 --> 00:45:39,520 that's going to do it for this interview 1196 00:45:44,790 --> 00:45:42,000 i have several more coming up i don't 1197 00:45:48,490 --> 00:45:44,800 know how many more but i have more until 1198 00:46:02,090 --> 00:45:48,500 next time take care and bye for now